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Guro, you mentioned earlier, you’ve
trained in quite a number of different Kali systems.
Could you tell me how many systems of Kali you’ve
trained in and how many of those you’re certified
in….?
I think it’s well over
thirty or so, some I’ve trained in a bit more
than others, but I’m certified in about twenty
of the thirty systems. Not that I didn’t think
that the other systems weren’t worth getting certified
in, but time was mainly the essence of this and sometimes
because of that instructor having to travel that far.
What’s the one common denominator
of all the Kali systems you’ve trained in….?
It’s a military science
more than it is a martial art and I think whether they
are aware of it consciously or sub-consciously, they
work on two elements. They work on tactics and after
you learn the tactics you find the strengths and weaknesses
of those tactics and that is how you plan the strategy
for that tactic. I think that is the main thing in the
Kali that was important, to learn the tactics or the
techniques and then to find out the best way you can
use those tactics and under what circumstances, under
what environment. When would it be detrimental to use
that tactic, when would it be to your advantage to use
that tactic, that’s the strategy.
Guro, Could you please explain
to me the difference between Kali’s Numerado drill
and De Cadena drill….?
This would depend on the system
you train in. De Cadena drill is a chain of action,
so in some systems it means that you do a technique
and then I do the technique and then you do the technique
and then I do the technique. There is no break or pause
from the training as lets say, one point sparring, a
lot of the times he’ll attack and then you counter
and then he’ll attack and you counter, but in
De Cadena there’s a constant flow whether your
successful or unsuccessful, there’s constant flow.
Then De Cadena in some systems means the empty hands,
the chain of hands. What I found out studying it from
different Filipino Martial Arts, is that it means something
in every system.
The Numerado in the Villabrille System now, that means
it’s a circular drill in which you will move around
your opponent and what it is, is your opponent feeds
you a certain angle of attack and you counter it and
follow up with up to one, two, three, four or even five
hits and then he’ll attack you on another line
and this will continue. Meanwhile your trying to zone
to his side where he cannot see, so he has to switch
his whole attack and face you, that is the Numerado
in the Villabrille System.
As in another system, the Numerado is a numbering system
where you just learn twelve angles of attack. In other
systems, the Numerado is 144 techniques, that’s
12 techniques for one, 12 techniques for two sometimes
they refer to it as abecedario. Then again, the abecedario
in some systems is a numbering system. In other systems
they add the contradas, which is usually depending on
what each instructor wants, will be 12 techniques for
one, 12 techniques for 2, or 12 possible techniques
for one and 12 possible techniques for 2 and 3 and 4
and so on.
Besides being a really cool drill,
what are some of the combative benefits of the Numerado
drill…..?
One of the benefits I think
is, it teaches you to zone away from the rear hand and
it teaches you to zone away if there is a another opponent
within the equation of the attack. So I think it teaches
you circling, zoning and mobility principles.
In teaching Numerado, what is
the training progression …..?
In the Villabrille System
they will attack with number one, if you were to think
of a clock, and you were standing at 12 O’clock,
your job would be to move all the way to 6.00 O’clock
by the time you finished your last strike on the counter.
Then when he attacks off number two, you will at least
try to move 45 degrees from the original place that
you were at. The idea behind this is to simulate more
than one warrior, because one attack might be from this
direction and one attack might be from that direction.
Numerado is also a very good light aerobic exercise,
however it could also be a heavy aerobic exercise, which
could also lead into the anaerobic system.
Can the drill be trained with
various weapons….?
Yes, the Numerado is a very
good drill because you can inter-change different weapons.
Double stick could be double sword, double sword could
be sword and shield, it could be a staff versus double
sticks, it could be a spear versus double sticks. It
could be stick and dagger versus shield and sword or
single stick or double sticks. There are just so many
different variations that you can put into it, that’s
why I think it’s a very good drill. You can have
a hatchet; you can have a sword and dagger as opposed
to a sword and shield as opposed to a shield and dagger
as opposed to a shield and an axe. So you can have a
shield and axe and then you have an axe and dagger.
There are just countless of different ways that you
can expose your students to the Numerado drill.
Guro Dan, between Bruce Lee &
yourself, you both researched and discovered many arts.
When did you first hear the term Silat….?
I actually heard it from Bruce
Lee (he laughs). Bruce Lee was the one that got me interested
in it. He introduced me to several Silat people. Bruce
felt that no stone should be left unturned; he also
believed that you should seek the strengths and weaknesses
of each system. So I guess the first time I heard about
it, was probably in 1966.
Could you please explain what
Silat is, & who your first Instructor was….?
Silat is an Indonesian or
Malaysian or a Southern Filipino martial art. However,
silat can be found in Southern Thailand and it can also
be found in Southern Burma. Silat can now be found in
Holland and it can also be found in England, the United
States and in Australia. I think Jon Dejong used to
teach it out there. There are just so many different
types of silat systems. I think that Don Draeger once
said that there’s over 158 different styles of
silat. However, Herman Suwanda before passing away,
said in West Java alone, there are 200 styles of silat.
What it is is an individualised art and it is my belief
that sometimes you cannot use that art because it is
individualised for that person. So the mistake most
people make is, they try and learn that particular silat
system and it may not fit their attributes because it
may not be their game. However, I think from a coaches
view point and more or less a philosophy and martial
art view point, each silat system has its own different
characteristics and it’s kind of fun to research
it, just to see how different people defended themselves
and attacked from that type of system.
In your biography “Dan Inosanto
the Man the Teacher the Artist” Perry William
Kelly makes reference to a man named John De Jong. Could
you tell me how you met him and about the Silat he taught
you….?
John De Jong was a Dutch Indonesian
who studied an art called Minangkabau from the island
of Sumatra. He also studied Serak and he kind of joined
the elements of Serak and Minangkabau. He also studied
under another Silat Instructor who was also Dutch Indonesian
that taught him Silat. He had three tours of Vietnam
in the Special Forces and was in a group of Special
Forces with a bunch of Native American Indians from
different tribes. That’s why he was heavily into
all the Native American customs and things of that nature.
I met him I believe in 1977 or 1978 and we then became
just really good friends, we exchanged tactical things.
We formed at that time what we called Kali/Silat. He
has passed away now, but he was really outstanding.
He was more of a fighter than he was a teacher, that’s
why many people found it very difficult to train under
him because he was more into fighting and everything
was for the fight. He was not too much on the artistic
part although he could do it.
He also trained in the Japanese Katana, so he was very
good at training that also. But every time he did it,
he had a kind of like Japanese Indonesian look when
he did the Japanese art. But he was a great martial
artist and was very knowledgeable but sometimes, because
he was in such a rush to get the material out, that
there wasn’t any kind of curriculum and he would
say “o.k., let me feel it, this is what you want
to do.” So he would teach more through feel and
that’s the way he taught.
What other systems of Silat have
you studied…? or are currently studying…..?
I’ve studied Serak from
four different views, from Willem De Thouars who also
studies Kuntao. I study with Victor De Thouars now and
have been for the last three and a half years. I’ve
studied with Paul De Thouars and I studied with Maurice
De Thouars for three lessons because he lives in Holland
but when he came to the United States I had the privilege
to train with him for the three lessons. I’ve
trained with Herman Suwanda and I’ve also trained
with his sister.
I’ve trained with Johnny LaCoste
which is Southern Filipino Silat. I’ve trained
with Eddy Jafre who’s from Sumatra and he has
a combination of four or five different systems. Then
I trained in Malaysian Bersilat under Nik Mustafa and
that was a combination of lyncha java silat betaga they
call it. He mixed it with what they call Gayong Harimau
which is different from original Gayong. So they’re
very in between and he kind of mixed his art too, because
where he lived, it’s very close to the border
of Thailand. So there’s kind of a Thai / Silat
look in his buahs and that’s where I learned it
from.
These were the main people that taught me. I think
I can say, De Thouars, Eddy Jafre, John De Jong, LaCoste
are the main people that taught me although I have been
very lucky whenever a guy comes into town that has a
Silat base, he is nice enough to share his Silat with
me.
Could you tell me about your personal
system of Maphilindo Silat….? And how does one
learn it….?
Maphilindo Silat is a combination
of Malaysian, Filipino and Indonesian Silat systems
which I joined together. It’s a very simple system
and it’s been in constant evolution since we created
it in I believe 1982, I could be slightly off with that
date.
Usually I like my students to have a base in some sort
Filipino or Silat system before they start and then
I just start to train them, that’s how they get
into it.
Finally Guro, Could you tell me
what the Martial Arts mean to you and the impact it’s
had on your life and development as a human being…..?
Martial arts have played a
real important part in my life. I would say for me,
it is a lifestyle, it is something not only from the
viewpoint of leaning martial arts but has helped me
in other areas of my life to the best of my ability.
Without it I don’t think I would have gone as
far in my career. My real goal at one time was just
to be a public school teacher, then later on, I drifted
into the martial arts. I could see I enjoyed public
school teaching and coaching but I really enjoyed teaching
the martial arts more and have been teaching ever since….
Thank you Guru for you time and knowledge………
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